Though there were certainly far fewer texts following the fall of Rome, there was a surprising amount of material produced in the following centuries, more than the term "Dark Ages" gives credit for. And the situation was entirely different in places that weren't Western Europe.
The Dark Ages weren't 100% dark, but they were very real, at least in Europe. Seriously, if you're into history read the link. The idea that the Dark Ages weren't real is a modern myth that has little basis in reality.
Here's a crazy stat. Based on the number of discovered shipwrecks, we can infer that European shipping was 98% lower in the 8th century than in the 1st century.
The Dark Ages existed, but they aren't necessarily when people think they are. (Did anyone else grow up thinking the term was synonymous with feudalism and the Middle Ages? It isn't!)
And as with the Renaissance, you have to specify "where" as well as "when". For example, Scott Alexander specifies "The period from about 500 to about 1000 in Christian Western Europe was marked by profound economic and intellectual decline and stagnation relative to the periods that came before and after it." And commenters pushed back on that ranges for specific times and places within that window. The past is complicated, and Western Europe is a big place. That DOESN'T disprove the decline, just means you needs more nuance to talk about it.
@Quizmaster -- can you link the source on the shipping claim? I believe you, just curious what area they were looking at.
QM - without more information that just suggests to me that ships were built better and sailors were more proficient
It's like crime statistics - often when levels of crime supposedly increase, it is actually that victims are more likely to report crimes / definitions of what constitute a crime change / police forces have become more efficient / etc
Seriously, sailing and navigation weren't 50 times safer in the Dark Ages than in the Roman Empire. Name these revolutionary advances that support such a theory.
Just FYI QM, the link you posted no longer works. It appears that the guy deleted his blog because the NYT decided (without his approval) they could print his real name in a story they were doing. There's only a single post describing his rationale. Might have to look in the wayback...
Thanks @joeythelemur. The NYT caused my favorite blog to go away. What a bunch of jerks. Please do the world a favor and cancel your subscription if you have one.
I've modified the link above, also pasted here for convenience.
@Quizmaster Is it not possible that shipbuilding quality and improvements in navigation may also have contributed to the decline in the number of shipwrecks
I think I should have been given a point for 'Saint-Michel' for Mont Saint Michel....... even as in the early days this isle was called Mont-Tombe anyway.
That doesn't make sense. The Asturian reconquista didn't end with the fall of Granada. Asturias is on the other side of the Iberian peninsula and León is also pretty far away.
I at least partially agree. It seems like the reconquista wouldn't have taken place in Spain, since the reason there was a reconquista was because this land was outside of Spain, right? This could be cleared up by specifying "present-day" country.
An incredible place and definitely should be on anyone's list. It's literally breathtaking when you come upon it. Spent a night on the Mont in 1992, will never forget it.
As a Frenchman i'm not sure if Mont St Michel is a true island, because on low tides you can reach it by walking on the sand, and there's even a road you could drive before it was closed to public traffic, so it's only an island some part of the day.
Here's a crazy stat. Based on the number of discovered shipwrecks, we can infer that European shipping was 98% lower in the 8th century than in the 1st century.
And as with the Renaissance, you have to specify "where" as well as "when". For example, Scott Alexander specifies "The period from about 500 to about 1000 in Christian Western Europe was marked by profound economic and intellectual decline and stagnation relative to the periods that came before and after it." And commenters pushed back on that ranges for specific times and places within that window. The past is complicated, and Western Europe is a big place. That DOESN'T disprove the decline, just means you needs more nuance to talk about it.
@Quizmaster -- can you link the source on the shipping claim? I believe you, just curious what area they were looking at.
It's like crime statistics - often when levels of crime supposedly increase, it is actually that victims are more likely to report crimes / definitions of what constitute a crime change / police forces have become more efficient / etc
I've modified the link above, also pasted here for convenience.